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Hall of Famer |
Hi to my Forum Friends,
Four weeks ago, we began the Adult Sunday School in our new church. The first Sunday, I used a PowerPoint presentation to discuss "What We Believe." The next Sunday, I used a PowerPoint presentation to lead a discussion called "It All Began With Creation." And, last Sunday, we began my favorite form of Sunday School class -- a sit around the table group discussion. We started on Genesis 1 and made it through Day Four. Tomorrow, we finish Genesis chapter 1. The following is my notes to recap last week before finishing the chapter. Maybe it will be useful to some of my Forum Friends. ADULT SUNDAY SCHOOL, GENESIS CHAPTER 1 Last week we began the study of Genesis, chapter 1 -- and, found that the book of Genesis is the foundation for the entire Bible. If Genesis is not true; how can we believe the rest of the Bible? Genesis is not a book of myths; but, is the history of God's Creation. The Bible is not a science book; but, a history book. It tells us that God created the heavens and the earth, i.e., the entire universe. And, this Creation included all the sciences and the laws which govern the sciences. Scientists and intellectuals think that, when they discover something new -- they are responsible for it. No, God created it long ago; they just happen to stumble upon it now. How often have your children told you about a great new thing they discovered, a new idea, a new way of doing something -- and you just smile, knowing that you had the same idea, did the same thing, when you were their age. When our first grandchild was an infant, Dory was baby-sitting her. The baby needed something done -- and, our son asked Dory, "Do you know how?" Duh! She birthed you and raised you; I do think she can handle your child okay. And, I am afraid our scientist and intellectuals tend to be like those children -- thinking they invented all these ideas and great things. Science, all sciences, are a subset of Creation. God did a fantastic job with the Creation -- and, until He returns, we will be discovering many new aspects of His Creation. And, many will think they invented or created them. We saw that the Creator is God, the Triune God: Father, Son, Holy Spirit. And, that this is shown in the Hebrew word for God, "Elohim." "Elohim" is the plural of "El" meaning God -- but, is always used with singular verbs and pronouns. In other words, Elohim is plural -- but, always used grammatically in the singular. Why? Because we have one God (singular) -- but, He is manifested in plural Persons. Strong's Concordance tells us "Elohim" is "plural intensive - singular meaning" and means God. We saw that the Hebrew word for create is "bara" which means to "create from nothing." God created the heavens and the earth from nothing. God created man -- and breathed life into him. That sure sounds better than saying we came from a simple little lifeless cell floating in a primordial swamp. I believe God can breathe life into being; I do not believe Darwinian Evolution can. We saw that the Hebrew word for day is "yohm" or "yom" -- and is used in the Bible 2287 times. Of those, it was used 2008 times to mean a solar day, a 24 hour day. And, in all cases when there was a number associated with the word "yom" -- such as day one, day two, etc. -- it always referred to a 24 hour day. So, yes, God created the heavens and the earth in six 24 hour days. We discussed the Gap Theory and why it cannot be considered valid: death and sin entered creation when Adam disobeyed God; not before. We discussed the different views of Creation: In other words: "How folks will attempt to compromise God to make Him fit the mold of science?" 1. Progressive Creation (Young Earth0) -- Creation occurred thousands of years ago -- not billions. My belief. 2. Progressive Creation (Old Earth, Day-Age) -- God created the heavens and the earth -- but, He did it in billions of years, i.e, day-age theory. This is taught by Dr. Hugh Ross, an astrophysicist, Reasons To Believe ministry. Dr. Ross, being a Christian and a scientist, obviously feels that he must make God fit the mold of science; not science fit within Creation. He studies the stars and says, "They must be billions of years old -- for that is what my science tells me." Imagine if God had created a medical doctor first -- and then, created Adam and Eve. The doctor would say that they are at least thirty years old -- just look at their size and maturity. And, I am sure he would have been confused when he saw no belly buttons. In other words, the doctor would be looking in his "frame of reference," i.e, people are born as infants, then grow through childhood, then into young adulthood, and finally become mature adults. Therefore, Adam and Eve had to have been created at least thirty years prior to the doctor seeing them. No, God created Adam and Eve as mature adults -- and He could just have easily created the heavenly bodies as mature stellar objects. Yet, to Dr. Ross, this does not fit into his frame of reference as a scientist -- therefore, he must make God and the Bible fit his science mold. And, thus we have Progressive Creation. 3. Theistic Creation (Evolutionary Creation) -- God created the heavens and the earth -- but, He did it over billions of years, allowing the evolutionary process to create and form life. 4. Scientific Secularist/Atheist View of Creation -- Two flavors: (1) The universe has always existed and evolution, starting billions of years ago, created life. (2) The Big Bang created the entire universe -- evolution, starting billions of years ago, created life. THE DAYS OF CREATION On Day One, we see that God brought light into being. Not the sun and moon; but, the Light of His glory. And, God saw that it was good. On Day Two, we see that God created the "expanse" -- separating the waters in the upper atmosphere from the waters on earth. In other words, He created our atmosphere which supports life on earth. And, God saw that it was good. On Day Three, we see that God created vegetation, plants, and fruit bearing trees. Another step in preparing an earth which would support life. And, God saw that it was good. On Day Four, we see that God created the sun, moon, and stars. The sun supplies the sunlight needed to make things grow, to give us warmth, and to determine our seasons and years. The moon's gravitational pull affects tides on earth, the moon gives us our lunar cycles used to determine times to plant and harvest, and our months (one rotation around earth every 29.5 days). Stars, besides being beautiful, have been man's navigational tool since days of old. And, God saw that it was good. Up to now, God has formed His heavens and earth, preparing earth for habitation by man and animal -- the land and the seas; the lights in the sky; and the plants which would provide food for both. He was molding the perfect environment where His ultimate creation, man, would live. Today, we will look at how God filled His creation in Day Five and Day Six. I pray some found this useful. Although I am sure that none of our atheists, secularist, or New Age Friends will agree with a single word. But, that is okay, it is not written for them. I would pray that some small seed might be sowed; but, if not, we can still continue to pray for them. God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day, Bill  |
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Hall of Famer |
Anyone manage to stay awake through the whole thing?
"I've found it hard to overestimate the ability of any organization to promote stupid people." -Jack Campbell, "Valiant: The Lost Fleet, Book 4" |
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Hall of Famer |
Hi Zip, Thank you for asking. Yes, and we have had some great discussions. By the way, too bad you could not have joined us before leaving sunny California. One question: Do you disagree with any of it -- and, if so, why? Biblically, not personally, with which part can you disagree? Please explain. Just saying, "All of it!" is not an explanation; especially for one who tells us he has a scientific mind. God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day, Bill  |
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Small Talker |
i think it shows a deep understanding of mythology and a shocking ignorance view of science.
life didnt begin "billions" of years ago moron. |
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Small Talker |
Hmm.. Interesting how Bill compares thinking individuals to young children discovering things for the first time and claiming these discoveries as solely their own.
Another good cult tactic. Dismiss anyone capable of rational thought who doesn't adhere to the doctrine as somehow inferior. Then he goes on to describe, as his bible tells him-because he is apparently unable to form any opinion or hypothesis of his own-or even to research or accept proven scientific facts- that his god just magically created this world we live in and then magically created us as his ultimate accomplishment to live in it. As if we were the only species ever to exist and everything else that is known to exist was created solely to support our existence and our existence alone. But using that logic, it's okay because "God saw that it was good." What self-centered thinking! How did God know it was 'good', Bill? Honestly. Because apparently there was no one to make that judgement call and nothing else to go by as a reference as to what is 'good.' Furthermore-What does that mean? What relevance does it have? I mean, seriously, Bill....I mean...I took a colossal dump yesterday and I looked at it and I saw it was good , too... So what? Furthermore-If God thought it was 'good', what did he have to compare it to? What did he create BEFORE our known universe and us to use as a reference to determine whether this lates creation was 'good' or not? Where are the mistakes and genetic misfires (Oh, I forgot  "Fundies!") and malformed universes that came before ours in the learning process that needed to be gone through in order to create the 'perfection' that we supposedly are? What's he doing after us? C'mon....That fable says god created everything known in six days. Ol' God just 'whomped 'em all up' eh? OK, Just how do ya figure he did all that, Bill? I mean, were some magic words involved? Did God blink real hard a couple times? Did he wiggle his nose like Samantha Stevens in 'Bewitched? Or did he screw up his eyes snd snarl and wave his arms around a lot and do the two-handed warlock point in a particular direction and just zorch up an entire universe and some folks to inhabit it? And for that matter-Why? To me, that seems like a whole lotta wigglin' and blinkin' and wavin' and zorchin' or whatever in a pretty short period of time! Was He bored? Did he not have anybody to play with? And just where and when the heck did HE come from, anyway? It all hadda start SOMEWHERE. Using logic, I know ^this^. It just HAS to be. Nothing else makes sense. I also know that the bible doesn't have anything even remotely close to an answer for this question because all the people who wrote it didn't really have much of a clue how or why things happened because they hadn't learned it yet. (Nevermind the 'inspired word of God' stuff, either. I don't believe it to be truth for a second. My grandmother was 'inspired' to travel to Medugorje, Bosnia-Herzegovina and give a Fundie evangelist her life's savings, but that didn't make it right, but I'm not bitter or anything.). Bill says his book tells him God's glory came first. Before anything else. I have a problem with this... First, I'd like to know where God came from. Following a logical progression- For there to be any of God's glory-there must first have been created a god-and for that matter, for there to be any of his glory-there had to be someone to form the concept of "gloriousness" to recognize it as such and apply it to the situation. But according to Bill's bible, there wasn't anybody yet to appreciate this 'glory' or to even have any concept of glory or anything else... Couldn't have happened on several levels. No makey sense. Bill's statement discredits itself according to logic. I do not believe in 'magic'. 'Magic' is for simple people who cannot or will not learn how or why things happen. Day two according to Bill's book-God created 'the expanse'. What? More whompin' and zorchin'? Also the water was separated from the atmosphere- Hold the phone! Where'd the atmosphere come from??? There wasn't one yesterday! There was no earth either-only "glorious light" that nobody was around to witness. Bill's statement also limits 'the expanse' to what a man standing on the surface of the earth can see and touch. Nevermind the statement is a given that the earth had already been created-presumably on day one. Funny...Day One history didn't say anything about the creation procees of the planet earth-or even that it was created! I guess we weren't supposed to be paying attention for any kind of understandable, logical order of things, but anyway... Day two doesn't make sense either. Doesn't follow any logical progression whatsoever and too many things are assumed. Therefore THAT statement also discredits itself. Day three: God created all forms of vegetation which would support life on this planet that nobody knows how it got here 'cause the book don't tell ya about that trivial stuff. Uh-huh.. OK, all I can figure is more whompin' and zorchin'. No mention of the known biological processes that are required to form plant life and determine the different species. Just "POOF! Here ya go!  " No makey sense either. Credibility=zero.Day four is a real humdinger, too as God then created (More whompin' and....yup...you guessed it...MORE zorchin') He created the entire universe full of planets and stars (Many capable of being just like ours) JUST FOR US! NO ONE ELSE! As if we are the only sentient beings to ever exist in all the known universe, like some kind of ant farm in a big room! Now I'm not a tinfoil-hat wearing UFO believer, but I think it does stand to reason that if we exist here in our solar system, surely it's possible that others exist in similar systems. JUST HOW does your book say all of this happened, Bill? What processes were involved? What order did these processes happen in? What about mistakes? No mention of things that didn't turn out as planned?! Day Four=No makey sense, therefore Day Four Statement has zero credibility. I can hardly wait to get a load of Days Five and Six! If there's gonna be more whompin' an' zorchin', I'ma git me a bigger helmet. And some higher boots. This message has been edited. Last edited by: Road Puppy, *Horn Broken-Watch For Finger* |
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Hall of Famer |
BILL, you are dealing with an audience on this forum that has a 30 second attention span, so ask yourself this question..."Is there ever a short version..??" Even your supporters/followers would like for you to consider that question. American by birth, Southern by the grace of God. |
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Hall of Famer |
Hi Shel, Thank you for your suggestion. In my Friends Ministry e-mail ministry, which I have been doing for about twelve years, I have often considered this question. Yet, when I have sent an e-mail to all in my Friends Ministry asking if I should change the format, shorten my writings, etc. -- every single one who took the time to respond, said, "No, don't change a thing." Over the years, I have taken this poll several times. My only conclusion is that those (like one very good Friend in Arizona who finds more that two sentences too long) who would like a shorter version -- do not read to the third sentence to see what I have asked. I have never had anyone reply that I should shorten my writings. The way I view this is that various people will read differing amounts of my writings. Some may read it all; others may only read a paragraph or two. But, if in the brief reading, they find a nugget or two; then my work is worthwhile. I am not asking that folks read it all. It will make more sense it they do; however, I realize that some folks have shorter attention span as you suggested. But, maybe they will read enough to gain something from what I write. And, on the more positive side -- it keeps our atheist/secualarist/New Age Friends busy so that they do not bother other folks. They are too busy reading what I wrote so they can quote it and tell me how stupid I am. So, we have "make busy" work for our non-believing Friends -- and, hopefully, our Christian or seeking Friends will find a golden nugget or two along the way. Once again, Shel, thank you for your suggestion -- and for caring. God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day, Bill  |
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Hall of Famer |
That could have been answered with either "Yes" or "No", but again...
"I've found it hard to overestimate the ability of any organization to promote stupid people." -Jack Campbell, "Valiant: The Lost Fleet, Book 4" |
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Familiar Face |
It was in Riverside. The gunshots kept them awake, that and the fire dept. sirens from the exploding meth labs.
The Bible is not history. History is a genre of literature that deals with analysis of past events using sources for analysis. No analysis, no history, only chronology. |
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Hall of Famer |
Hi Shel,
See how I am keeping them busy. Nothing like a wee bit of "make busy" to occupy the minds of some. God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day, Bill  |
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Hall of Famer |
 American by birth, Southern by the grace of God. |
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Small Talker |
Are you dismissing my valid questions, Bill? They were directed at you, ya know. I wanna know how that illogical story could have happened. Surely the book that provides every answer for every question has an answer for mine? Just because I word my questions and suppositions colorfully does not invalidate them. You are so gung-ho to teach? THEN TEACH, Eh? Put your mind where your mouth is. Don't just pee on me and tell me it's raining'cause I know better. Unless you don't really believe all that spew either. But that's OK-I can accept that if it is the case. I've had that revelation before and it's why I do not believe all of it now. You COULD also just tell me plain and simple: "I don't know." That's also acceptable. 'Cause I don't know either whether or not there's even a grain of truth to all that jabberwocky. I only know and believe what makes logical sense. *Horn Broken-Watch For Finger* |
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Hall of Famer |
Hi Puppy,
To date, you have not asked a question; at least not an intelligible question. All I have seen from you is ranting, cursing, and name calling. If you can, give us an intelligent question -- and, just maybe, we can have a dialogue. God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day, Bill  |
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Small Talker |
OK Bill, since ya obviously only see the parts of my posts that ya wanna see-I'll make it easier for ya.
Here are only the questions I asked removed from my previous post without any other text surrounding them: =======EVERYTHING ABOVE THIS LINE IS NOT A QUESTION====== 1.)How did God know it was 'good', Bill? Honestly. Because apparently there was no one to make that judgement call and nothing else to go by as a reference as to what is 'good.' Furthermore- 2.)What does that mean? 3.) What relevance does it have? Furthermore-If God thought it was 'good', 4.)what did he have to compare it to? 5.)What did he create BEFORE our known universe and us to use as a reference to determine whether this lates creation was 'good' or not? 6.)Where are the mistakes and genetic misfires and malformed universes that came before ours in the learning process that needed to be gone through in order to create the 'perfection' that we supposedly are? 7.)What's he doing after us? God just 'whomped 'em all up' eh? OK, 8.)Just how do ya figure he did all that, Bill? I mean,9.) were some magic words involved? 10.)Did God blink real hard a couple times? 11.)Did he wiggle his nose like Samantha Stevens in 'Bewitched? Or 12.)did he screw up his eyes snd snarl and wave his arms around a lot and do the two-handed warlock point in a particular direction and just zorch up an entire universe and some folks to inhabit it? And for that matter-13.)Why? To me, that seems like a whole lotta wigglin' and blinkin' and wavin' and zorchin' or whatever in a pretty short period of time! 14.)Was He bored? 15.) Did he not have anybody to play with? And 16.) just where and when the heck did HE come from, anyway? .... I'd like to know where God came from. Following a logical progression- For there to be any of God's glory-there must first have been created a god-and for that matter, for there to be any of his glory-there had to be someone to form the concept of "gloriousness" to recognize it as such and apply it to the situation. But according to Bill's bible, there wasn't anybody yet to appreciate this 'glory' or to even have any concept of glory or anything else... Day two.......God created 'the expanse'.... 17.)More whompin' and zorchin'? Also the water was separated from the atmosphere- Hold the phone! 18.)Where'd the atmosphere come from??? There wasn't one yesterday! There was no earth either-only "glorious light" that nobody was around to witness. Bill's statement also limits 'the expanse' to what a man standing on the surface of the earth can see and touch. Nevermind the statement is a given that the earth had already been created-presumably on day one. Funny...Day One history didn't say anything about the creation procees of the planet earth-or even that it was created! 19.)WHY? 20.)Was no one supposed to be paying attention to the order of things happening? Just 21.) how does the book that you get all your answers from say that- He created the entire universe full of planets and stars (Many capable of being just like ours) JUST FOR US! NO ONE ELSE! As if we are the only sentient beings to ever exist in all the known universe, like some kind of ant farm in a big room! Now I'm not a tinfoil-hat wearing UFO believer, but I think it does stand to reason that if we exist here in our solar system, surely it's possible that others exist in similar systems. 22.)JUST HOW does your book say all of this happened, Bill? 23.)What processes were involved? 24.) What order did these processes happen in? 25.) What about mistakes? No mention of things that didn't turn out as planned?! 26.)HOW can you make that story make sense? =====EVERYTHING BELOW THIS LINE IS NOT A QUESTION====== EVERYTHING has a beginning and an end. In between is a logical progression from start to finish. OK Bill. I dunno if I can make 'em any clearer than that. I even numbered 'em for ya to make 'em easier to spot in all those questions. Feel free to copy/paste the format and stick yer answers where my questions were and repost them if it's easier. I know that science has pretty much the answers as to how everything we can see -including US-happened. Those answers make sense to me- No magic involved. Science's explanations, while the math is way over my head, make sense to me. They follow a logical progression from start to present state-and even theorize beyond the present. The story you posted doesn't really follow any logic, but maybe I'm missing something like you missed all those questions I asked you. Care to clarify? This message has been edited. Last edited by: Road Puppy, *Horn Broken-Watch For Finger* |
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Familiar Face |
And this class was for adults? On Genesis and then the text and not the scholarship? Sounds like the handlers got ripped off to me. Power Point? Why not have everyone make cut outs of nude adults and snakes?
Do y'all use the New Testament at all and talk about the Christian duty? Or just the more bloody and far fetched portions of the Bible? I am sure the part of universal brotherhood and the limited resources of the earth was the main portion of the little presentation, n'est-ce pas? Or did y'all fight over which species of snake there was involved? |
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