Do you believe these churches are correct in the laying on of hands, speaking in tongues, being baptized in the Spirit?

If the people who attend are comfortable with that sort of thing, then yes.

I realize the people that attend these churches must believe in it but I was curious about other people's opinion about it.

The traditions and sacrements of this church have exactly the same validity and correctness of any other church of and of any other religion metaphysically, zero. All religions and conceptual gods are man made. So whatever mythology you follow you may as well adopt the cute little traditions that go with with it. Isn't that part of the fun?

They have validity to some people because people believe they have validity. There are people who feel as if this sort of thing fills a great void in their spirit. And they're probably right. That doesn't mean you or I would feel the same.

And traditions are very important to keeping a society and culture rational and cohesive...they're not just part of the fun.

quote:

Originally posted by Netracer41:
The traditions and sacrements (sic) of this church have exactly the same validity and correctness of any other church of and of any other religion metaphysically, zero. All religions and conceptual gods are man made. So whatever mythology you follow you may as well adopt the cute little traditions that go with with it. Isn't that part of the fun?

Hi 41,

To be quite honest, I am tempted to ask if that is your age or your IQ; but, that would not be the Christian thing to do. But, you do remind me of the young fellow who extremely dislikes swimming or water -- but, is always drawn to the lake or river just to heckle those who do enjoy these things.

In a way, I can understand when our atheists and secularists Friends post their religious beliefs -- for they are evangelizing their chosen religions. In other words, they have a reason for their preaching. However, you do not seem to believe in anything. So, I must ask, why are you on the Religion Forum? Is it just because you love to be contentious and to argue and you feel that the Religion Forum offers you greater opportunity for this amusement?

If that is all you are seeking, to vent your Freudian desires -- then, the Politics Forum will also serve your purpose. There are many folks there who will argue pro or con for Mr. Obama. And, just think how exited you can get -- by opposing them.

Just my thoughts.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

I refuse to respond to Bill's idiotic ad hominem attacks. Just consider the source everyone.

quote:

Originally posted by Netracer41:
I refuse to respond to Bill's idiotic ad hominem attacks. Just consider the source everyone.

TRUE, THERE ARE QUESTIONS WHICH CANNOT BE RATIONALLY ANSWERED. NOT A PROBLEM!

Why do the full gospel women think they are sinning if they wear "men's clothes" so they always wear dresses? Didn't the bible dudes who wrote that rule actually wear robes which are more like dresses anyway?

Hi MrPepper,

You ask, "Why do the Full Gospel women think they are sinning if they wear "men's clothes" so they always wear dresses? Didn't the Bible dudes who wrote that rule actually wear robes which are more like dresses anyway?"

Yes, the men in the days of Jesus' earthly ministry did dress different than we do today. Each culture and each time has its own style or mode of dress which fits their needs. And, yes, there are Christian churches today which are more legalistic and do have the dress codes you mentioned. However, as long as the members are happy with this; there is no problem. In most Christian churches, what we ask folks to do, both men and women, is to dress modestly.

What does this mean -- to dress modestly? Well, that can vary with different churches also. Pastor Rick Warren of Saddleback Church has a reputation of wearing Hawaiian shirts when he preaches. In our Filipino-American churches, some pastors wear suits, some wear sport jackets, and others wear just casual clothing. As long as we dress respectful of our Lord and of our fellow Christians; there should be no need for a dictated dress code.

However, what I mean by dressing modestly, and what most churches ask of people, is that men do not come to church wearing their Speedo, or bathing suit, or such. And, that women dress as though they are going to visit their elderly mother, i.e, no short flirty skirts, no crotch level pants, no midriff exposing cutoff shirts, etc.

Besides showing respect for our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ -- there is a practical side to this. Keep in mind that we all are still very human, with a built in sin nature -- and very vulnerable to temptations. This is why we hear about pastors and evangelists who fall into temptation; often destroying their Christian ministry. My long time Friend and mentor, Pastor Sam Lacanienta, has always had a firm rule: he will not counsel a single woman unless his wife is in the same room. Was this because he knew he would be tempted? That could have been part of it; but, it was mostly to avoid any possibility that he could be accused of any wrong actions or indiscretions.

Billy Graham, when he traveled around the world for Crusades, lived in many hotels. He had a firm rule. Before he would enter his hotel room, one of his team would enter the room first -- to assure that no one or nothing which could cast doubt upon him was in that hotel room. How Satan would have loved to have had an antagonist hire a "lady of the evening" to hide is his room -- and when he entered, put him into a compromising position -- with waiting cameras to record what she had made it appear to be. Something like this could have destroyed Billy Graham's ministry -- and, imagine how many folks would not have heard the Gospel at his many Crusades. But, Billy was one step ahead of Satan.

All of this is part of us putting a barrier between ourselves and sources of temptation or apparent indiscretions. Stay out of the barnyard and you will not have to worry about stepping in cow pies.

I recall, about twenty years ago, a young couple joined our church. He was a young Marine, a devout Christian, and she was his new bride, fresh from the Philippines. She was a very pretty, petite young lady who, in the beginning, came to church wearing very short miniskirts. And, I will admit, I would try not to sit behind them -- for I did not want to be distracted from the message of the day. She was not purposely trying to tempt anyone. It was just that she was young and did not know she was causing men to be tempted. Later, after the pastor, or someone else, discretely suggested she wear longer skirts -- the problem was alleviated.

So, Pepper, if you visit our church, dress comfortable and casual -- for we want you concentrating on Jesus Christ and your walk with Him -- not how hot and uncomfortable you are; nor how that tight necktie is choking you. Casual, but, no Speedo, please.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Bill, I know I will regret this because I fear it will bring on another sermon (No need to reply) but you never answered MrPepper's question.
All you did was go on about how a man can be tempted by what a woman wears.

quote:

Originally posted by MrPepper:
Why do the full gospel women think they are sinning if they wear "men's clothes" so they always wear dresses?

I assume this is the scripture they refer to.

(NIV, Deuteronomy 22:5)
A woman must not wear men's clothing, nor a man wear women's clothing, for the LORD your God detests anyone who does this.

(NIV, 1 Timothy 2:9-10)
I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.

(NIV, 1 Peter 3:2-5)
Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight. For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to make themselves beautiful.

Any style of dress that is offensive or sends a message opposing the church values would be wrong. Most women wear jeans that are tight & outlines every part of their body. Since men are highly tempted by women, I would guess this would be a No No in church & considered offensive.

quote:

Originally posted by semiannualchick: Bill, I know I will regret this because I fear it will bring on another sermon (No need to reply) but you never answered MrPepper's question. All you did was go on about how a man can be tempted by what a woman wears.

Hi Chick,

I did answer his question; but, obviously not to your satisfaction. As I said, the strict dress code in some churches is due to their legalism. However, if the members are happy with this -- I am sure God does not mind. And, I said that folks should dress modestly when attending any church fellowship -- be it worship service, Bible study, or whatever.

There are several reasons for modest dress in church. The first, Christians are ambassadors for Christ (2 Corinthians 5:20) and should dress and act accordingly. The second reason, as I pointed out in my earlier post -- is to avoid causing a Christian brother or sister to stumble through temptation. Both are valid reasons for modest dress in church.

Personally, I have no problem with casual dressing as long as it is modest. But, keep in mind that we are in church to worship a King -- and who would approach a King dressed as a clown or a harlot? And, who would approach a King dressed to seduce male Christians?

I believe it is all a matter of good taste and common sense.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:

quote:

Originally posted by semiannualchick: Bill, I know I will regret this because I fear it will bring on another sermon (No need to reply) but you never answered MrPepper's question. All you did was go on about how a man can be tempted by what a woman wears.

Hi Chick,

I did answer his question; but, obviously not to your satisfaction. As I said, the strict dress code in some churches is due to their legalism. However, if the members are happy with this -- I am sure God does not mind. And, I said that folks should dress modestly when attending any church fellowship -- be it worship service, Bible study, or whatever.

There are several reasons for modest dress in church. The first, Christians are ambassadors for Christ (2 Corinthians 5:20) and should dress and act accordingly. The second reason, as I pointed out in my earlier post -- is to avoid causing a Christian brother or sister to stumble through temptation. Both are valid reasons for modest dress in church.

Personally, I have no problem with casual dressing as long as it is modest. But, keep in mind that we are in church to worship a King -- and who would approach a King dressed as a clown or a harlot? And, who would approach a King dressed to seduce male Christians?

I believe it is all a matter of good taste and common sense.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

No,Bill, you didnt answer my question. I'm not talking about dressing modestly, I'm talking about the Holiness/Penticostal crowd who says a woman must not wear men's clothing: (NIV, Deuteronomy 22:5)
A woman must not wear men's clothing, nor a man wear women's clothing, for the LORD your God detests anyone who does this.
However, the men's clothing of the day in which this scripture was written was robes/flowing garments and clothing that looked more like dresses - yet the modern day penticostals think that women shouldn't were pants because they are men's clothing - even though pants didn't even exist in that day!!!

A Bach prelude is not entertaining enough for some folk, I'd wager. All that there "Like sheep from the fold we have strayed, yet Thy property is always to forgive . . ." might be too harsh when one can just hoop and holler. I have been known to whoop in the day at a Clash concert, and were my boys the Driveby Truckers to break out with Panties, I would whoop again.

p.s. Trousers did exist, Persians wore them, Germans wore them at times, but not Hebrews or the people of Africa, Classical Europe, or the Near East. They, along with the pointy cap were considered the hallmark of the barbarian -- the vulgar and the Germanic hordes, our dear cousins.

p.p.s. I find hooting in church to be frightening and rather odd, but I just avoid holy rollies. I never can keep up with what the latest sin of the moment is. But for the hooters, do as Franklin said to when when passing gas, "With pride!"