Why would he do this? Isn't this just a bit far-fetched?

Are you a Christian?

A couple of thoughts come to mind here.

History is written by the opinion leaders of their time from within the culture they exist. Attila is revered in some places in the world.

If your example of institutionalized raping and pillaging is universally evil, then you are also condemning your Christian Church. If you don't believe me, look to the Crusades by the Knights Templar. And later, look to the Great Inquisition, wherein the Knights Templar (and others) were tortured and murdered in the name of Jesus when they fell out of favor with the Christian elite.

Today, many fundamentalist Christians, pray every day for the Rapture, where their like-minded brethren will be snatched up into the sky, leaving those who don't agree with them down here on Earth to have the crap kicked out of them unto death. That is a 19th Century construct of a modern day Crusade. The inherent philosophy of a bloody victory by the Christian church over its enemies is today more powerful than ever. The only thing stopping it is today we have a world governed by law, not a Pope. Were it the other way, Radical Fundamentalist Christianity would make the Taliban look like a bunch of pikers.

For that matter, did Mohammed actually ascend to Heaven on a white horse?

Is the Dalai Lama actually a direct reincarnation of The Buddah?

According to the editors of the Dark Ages anthology known today as the Christian Bible, a man named Jesus of Nazareth used his miraculous powers as evidence that he spoke with the power of Jehovah God at his back. The problem with evidentiary proof in this case is that the Bible has been largely discredited in the legitimate historical academic community because of the way it was compiled, edited, and conformed over a period of two to four centuries by men who were of a particular political bent. Not to say that there are valid moral teachings in the Bible, but to claim that any item in the anthology is historical fact requires a thoroughly intense course of scrutiny.

Did Jesus really heal people? Maybe, doubtful, hard to say.

Max

Its very hard to have concrete proof from a time period where very few could read or write and distances took weeks to travel.

The Bible is not meant to be a history book or a science book.

Don't argue with a Pharisee!

Blaknwhite,

Around that time, there were many miracle workers. There are today, too. Just look at Benny Hinn and Peter Popoff. Through faith, their admirers are healed, and among the community in which they roll, there is no doubt that the healings are legitimate.

If you've read Hume on the nature of miracles, you'd know that if you saw nature violated, for your benefit, you'd have to doubt your own senses. To take it third hand, or farther detached, without skepticism is unreasonable.

Looking back at the stories, knowing the why and how they have come down to us, skepticism is certainly appropriate.

yes Jesus healed people read your bible if you don't have a bible please attend a church there you can get the answers.

Nice post, noway.

Why is it so because it is in the Bible?

quote:

Originally posted by nowaychic:
yes Jesus healed people read your bible if you don't have a bible please attend a church there you can get the answers.

The Bible is not a credible source, it was first fabricated, then edited over and over. The people in churches attempt to define and explain this fictional work. I wouldn't look to either of these sources for credible information.

quote:

If your example of institutionalized raping and pillaging is universally evil, then you are also condemning your Christian Church. If you don't believe me, look to the Crusades by the Knights Templar. And later, look to the Great Inquisition, wherein the Knights Templar (and others) were tortured and murdered in the name of Jesus when they fell out of favor with the Christian elite.

I claim your logic is faulted. No where in the teachings of the "Christian Church" are members instructed to do the things you mentioned. Greed, corruption, and misguidance can occur in any organization.

Yes, Blankwite, Jesus did heal people as well as many other miracles. And, the Bible is not the only source of evidence. Those who sought to kill him could not dispute this fact. They were eyewitnesses of his life and wrote in the Talmud that he could do miracles but that he did it by the power of Satan. They had to come up with some explanation for his ability. These were his enemies. Did you know that one of the best defenses you can have in a court of law is when your enemy testifies on your behalf? Sounds like good evidence to me.

quote:

Originally posted by Netracer41:

quote:

Originally posted by nowaychic:
yes Jesus healed people read your bible if you don't have a bible please attend a church there you can get the answers.

The Bible is not a credible source, it was first fabricated, then edited over and over. The people in churches attempt to define and explain this fictional work. I wouldn't look to either of these sources for credible information.

Can you give me an example of one of these edits you mentioned?

quote:

Originally posted by nowaychic:
yes Jesus healed people read your bible if you don't have a bible please attend a church there you can get the answers.

Uh-huh. The National Enquirer says that "Bat-Boy" is terrorizing parts of West Virginia every so often and that Bill Clinton was in cahoots with Extraterrestrials but that doesn't necessarily make it the truth.

From my experience, going to a church to find answers is kinda like going to a rock concert to find peace and quiet.

quote:

Originally posted by Alphonse:
I claim your logic is faulted. No where in the teachings of the "Christian Church" are members instructed to do the things you mentioned. Greed, corruption, and misguidance can occur in any organization.

First of all, logic has nothing to do with this argument. History and common sense do.

Are you telling me that the Church of Rome did not send out Crusaders to proselytize the near east and other lands at all costs?

Are you claiming that Pope Urban didn't send Crusaders on their mission?
"Pope Urban II (1088-1099) was responsible for assisting Emperor Alexus I (1081-1118) of Constantinople in launching the first crusade. He made one of the most influential speeches in the Middle Ages, calling on Christian princes in Europe to go on a crusade to rescue the Holy Land from the Turks. In the speech given at the Council of Clermont in France, on November 27, 1095, he combined the ideas of making a pilgrimage to the Holy Land with that of waging a holy war against infidels." Excerpt from: http://gbgm-umc.org/umw/bible/crusades.stm

The Pope WAS the Church. And the Church sent the Crusaders to accomplish their mission at any cost. It was one of the bloodiest periods in human history. And it was all in the name of Jesus!

You not only insult my intelligence, but your own as well.

Shall we speak to The Great Inquisition, or shall I wait for your answer on this point first? I think I shall wait.

I also think that I exist.

Max

quote:

Originally posted by bowman:
Yes, Blankwite, Jesus did heal people as well as many other miracles. And, the Bible is not the only source of evidence. Those who sought to kill him could not dispute this fact. They were eyewitnesses of his life and wrote in the Talmud that he could do miracles but that he did it by the power of Satan. They had to come up with some explanation for his ability. These were his enemies. Did you know that one of the best defenses you can have in a court of law is when your enemy testifies on your behalf? Sounds like good evidence to me.

Interesting post, Bowman. You prompted me to google the issue.

http://judaism.about.com/od/beliefs/a/jesus.htm

It's not clear that the Yeshu of the Talmud is Jesus.