they won't, tac.

Killing one's kids for religious purposes in America has traditionally been treated lightly. Biblical precedent, you know.

DF

God calls us to be people of faith, not to be total idiots. God gave us brains and the ability to diagnose and treat our illnesses. It is unfortunate that some people choose to cherry pick the scripture for things that support their bizarre beliefs. In circumstances such as this, it is also criminal. Intelligence and christianity can and do go hand in hand, at least for some of us.

quote:

Originally posted by Top Down Beemer:
God calls us to be people of faith, not to be total idiots. God gave us brains and the ability to diagnose and treat our illnesses. It is unfortunate that some people choose to cherry pick the scripture for things that support their bizarre beliefs. In circumstances such as this, it is also criminal. Intelligence and christianity can and do go hand in hand, at least for some of us.

Not nearly as defensive of religious freedoms as you are those gun rights are you Beemer? Interesting yet strangely typical.

Apparently, TDB, bubbaluck is not sufficiently gifted to understand.

quote:

Originally posted by zippadeedoodah:
Apparently, TDB, bubbaluck is not sufficiently gifted to understand.

Understanding and agreement are vastly different things. I should imagine the lense through which you determine who is gifted and who is not may be filthy or permanently damaged.

I'm still trying to figure out why "god" let this little girl get sick in the first place.

The almighty god gave us brains, and life, and the earth and moon, gave us medicine, yet still, some 3000 years later, children are still abused, raped, murdered, and dying of disease.

Forget the ignorance of the parents, where was god when this little girl was being denied basic health care? Where was god when this little girl was dying? Oh that's right, freewill and all.....

quote:

Originally posted by Ed@Bama:
Of course I do. I am not told to only love people who think like me. I am commanded to love everyone - even fictional atheists!

Why do people think Christians, such as myself do some kind of interview and only like people who think like we do? Believe what we beleive? So close minded. Really weird. I have friends that are "religious" or NOT on so many levels. We discuss it on occasion, but it has neve become an issue.

quote:

Originally posted by fineazell1:
I'm still trying to figure out why "god" let this little girl get sick in the first place.

The almighty god gave us brains, and life, and the earth and moon, gave us medicine, yet still, some 3000 years later, children are still abused, raped, murdered, and dying of disease.

Forget the ignorance of the parents, where was god when this little girl was being denied basic health care? Where was god when this little girl was dying? Oh that's right, freewill and all.....

We cannot even begin to understand Gods plan. Everything happens for a reason. We/each one of us is such a small, tiny part of the big scheme of things. Our minds cannot comprehend why bad things happen to good people. I am sure this angel is smiling now and has a greater understanding of life than any of us right now.

quote:

Originally posted by SO TIRED OF IGNORANCE:

quote:

Originally posted by Ed@Bama:
Of course I do. I am not told to only love people who think like me. I am commanded to love everyone - even fictional atheists!

Why do people think Christians, such as myself do some kind of interview and only like people who think like we do? Believe what we beleive? So close minded. Really weird. I have friends that are "religious" or NOT on so many levels. We discuss it on occasion, but it has neve become an issue.

Just a guess, So Tired, but I'd wager that it's because we, as humans, like to fit people into little boxes for our own convenience. It's pretty much a "Oh, he's a Christian, so he's THIS way", or "Oh, she's black, so she must be like THAT"...

I do my best to formulate my opinions of people based on the words and deeds of each individual person, but I fall into the old comfortable ways all too often. Some people never even try to see the world outside the constraints they have placed on it. More's the pity.

quote:

Originally posted by DeepFat:
they won't, tac.

Killing one's kids for religious purposes in America has traditionally been treated lightly. Biblical precedent, you know.

DF

Leave it to you to make an idiotic statement like this....It amazes me how much sense you make in political discussions yet so make such absurd statements anytime God is brought up.
This wasn't killing one's kids for religious purposes...it was two idiotic people who made a grave error in judgement. No need to make it more than what it was on their part because it takes away from the tradgedy of this girl's death.

quote:

Originally posted by _Joy_:

quote:

Originally posted by miamizsun:
These were/are people, parents of perfect faith.

What supersedes what here? The faith and laws of their god? Or the laws of common sense and modern man?
Exactly what law are you referring to? I'm unaware of one that forbids the use of modern medicine. Luke, as in The Gospel according to, was a doctor.

If you are a person of faith, real faith, how could you pass judgment? They prayed about this and left it in god's hands, and he chose to take her earthly life.
Whatever, miami. So when the Samaritan took pity on a man who'd been attacked, bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine, took him to an inn & took care of him, what Jesus meant to say was the Samaritan told the guy medical care was not needed. He just needed to pray harder.

Isn't she better off in heaven? No more suffering for her, land of milk and honey, streets of gold.
Her life was not their's to take. Besides the fact that God would never tell them to let this child die, she has or at least SHOULD have the right to life in this country.

How can you, if you really believe in this god and heaven, argue with this?
Easy. I just did.

The father, a former police officer, sworn to uphold man's law, chose to go with faith in the almighty....

Were he and his wife wrong to believe that their god would save their child's life?
No, but neglecting to get the child help when they knew full well it was available was extremely wrong.

Or even that their god could save their child's life?
Same answer as above.

And they've got three other children....I hope that they don't need medical attention....
I hope they are taken from these two & given to someone with enough sense to raise them.

Joy, first, we should ask:

What would cause a person or persons to think like this?

From the article:

"The girl's mother, Leilani Neumann, said that she and her family believe in the Bible and that healing comes from God, but that they do not belong to an organized religion or faith, are not fanatics and have nothing against doctors."

Where would they get such divine guidance?

We can start with these:

1.Health and healing come from The Lord God.

OT=Ex. 15:26; Deut. 7:15; Psalm 30:2-3; 103:2-3; 147:3; Is. 30:26; 35:4-6; 53:5; 57:18-19; Jer. 17:14; 30:17; 33:6; Hosea 6:1
NT=Matt.4:23-24; 8:16-17; 9:35; 10:1,8; 12:15; 15:30-31; Luke 4:18; 5:15; 9:6,11; Acts 3:1-3,6-8; 9:33-34

2.It is obedience to God's law that brings health and healing.

OT=Ex. 15:26; 23:25; II Chron. 7:14; Prov. 3:1-8; 4:20-22

I'll be happy to go and post the exact scripture/biblical law if you like....

Between Jesus and his disciples they were constantly healing the sick and reviving the dead, etc, etc...

The usual tricks of the day left quite an impression on folks, in fact so much that the stories, even now, in today's educated and modern society gives cause to ignorant and unnecessary death.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: miamizsun,

quote:

We cannot even begin to understand Gods plan.

Sure you can. You can understand from his "word" that medicine is evil.

The very pinnacle of weak, special pleading is when y'all go into detail about what god wants, replete with bible verses to back you up. Then, when god's negligence is abundantly evident, as in the case of this poor little girl, he's much too mysterious to comprehend.

This little girl was a victim of a fairy tale. It's just that simple. She could be alive right now, feeding cookies to a teddy bear, learning multiplication tables, except her parents chose to believe a primitive superstition.

And you guys think atheists are the weird ones.

DF

It's tough to be philosophical over a tragedy like this. In fact, what is the point? These parents bet their daughter's life on their faith, and lost. One wonders if the parents would have made the same decision if it were their own lives. But I've been known to be terminally cynical. This just saddens me. What a horrid waste.

quote:

Originally posted by zippadeedoodah:
It's tough to be philosophical over a tragedy like this. In fact, what is the point? These parents bet their daughter's life on their faith, and lost. One wonders if the parents would have made the same decision if it were their own lives. But I've been known to be terminally cynical. This just saddens me. What a horrid waste.

Maybe they didn't lose. Maybe it was "God's plan", "God's Will", or a "Test of Faith" for the couple. Let's ask those people that have the direct line to God. It will be interesting to see what God tells these people.

Personally, I think they were lunatics, but I have problems with organized religion, and literal interpretation of the Bible. I also have problems with the Good Christians who would chastise these people for living their faith.

When it comes right down to it, the Bible is so convoluted and self-contradictory that this is what happens. A book that should be about loving one's neighbor, becomes the source of division. All we have to do is read the threads on this forum to see it in action.

This is the elephant in the living room for me:

If everyone is convinced that this girl is in a much better place, then why all the sadness over her departure? Should you all be celebrating and jumping for joy over her wondrous triumph over this evil existence?

Why is her death such a "horrible," "horrid," "terrible," "stupid" waste?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: GoFish,