The link will take you to a copy of the letter of resignation of Matthew Hoh, a respected State Department official, who candidly and profesionally summarizes the reasons why our continued presence in Afghanistan is a consummate folly!


http://www.washingtonpost.com/...?sid=ST2009102603447

We need not be there any longer. Like he said, "We are spending ourselves into oblivion" and "mortgaging our Nation's economy".

We can just do it again in 10 more years at 5 times the cost.

quote:

Originally posted by Ronnie P.:
We can just do it again in 10 more years at 5 times the cost.

HA! We've been there nearly 10 years as it is! Anybody have a clue how to win a God**** war anymore?

There is no such thing as "winning" a war in the modern world.

To "win" a war meant a clear demarcation between the militaries of two sovereign powers and one of those powers surrendering and making the further prosecution of the war no longer necessary.

In today's world, we're at risk from mobile, non-uniformed, militias who believe that surrender isn't an option and who hold no respect for the line between military and civilians.

Their war is a total war, against not just the soldiers and hardware we array against them, but against a culture and way of life that they revile.

So what's your solution?

Afghanistan became a bizarre analog to the tar baby in Uncle Remus' story for the Soviets. They couldn't disengage without losing considerable stature among their client states. However, theirs was a true "occupation" in every sense of the word, with the attendant horrors of generational cleansing and abduction of Afghan children to the USSR for education and indoctrination.

Having said that, I'm not able to find a lot of fault with Mr. Hoh's stance. Afghanistan is not a country; it's simply a loose group of clans living in a geographical region. You can hold the cities, maybe, but the real power in the country is held by warlords and clan leaders. They finance their operation through opium and will resist any attempt to change that. Any professional military officer has read Kipling and should read the recently discovered briefings provided to the USSR Politburo by their army commander before they went into that country. They replied: "We give the orders, you carry them out." They paid the price, and did so in a big way.

quote:

Originally posted by SardonicPoet:
There is no such thing as "winning" a war in the modern world.

To "win" a war meant a clear demarcation between the militaries of two sovereign powers and one of those powers surrendering and making the further prosecution of the war no longer necessary.

In today's world, we're at risk from mobile, non-uniformed, militias who believe that surrender isn't an option and who hold no respect for the line between military and civilians.

Their war is a total war, against not just the soldiers and hardware we array against them, but against a culture and way of life that they revile.

So what's your solution?

Well if you have no plan to win a war, you certainly don't go to war. The best option right now is to do a couple of Vietnam like pull outs and protect the homeland. If you don't have an army to fight, then you don't send the army. You send the police. Obviously you've bought into the bs. We as a people are never going to accept never ending war. We're just not! If you can't win it, then get out of it. Otherwise, we're doomed. There simply is no other alternative!

quote:

We as people are never going to accept never ending war. We're just not!

Even if that's the only option your opponent allows you?

If we don't dictate the terms of the fight, they will.

You can debate the pros/cons of either strategy.

But that is an unavoidable reality.

By your own resposne, you have the intelligence to recognize that leaving our opponents to their own devices will bring the 'war' to the 'homeland', which we'll have to defend.

So we're due an endless mortal struggle with people who want our way of life abolished either way, and you want to fight it in OUR yard instead of theirs?

We find ourselves, in this century, presented with the grisly reality that the ones who want to shoot and kill us don't make formal declarations or observe rules of engagement.

And yet, you propose that we must fight them with methods and protocols that they largely ignore.

I'm not trying to be confrontational or derisive to you personally.

I just really want to know why those who believe as you do insist on defining this as a conflict with a single objective of victory that is either attainable or not.

quote:

Originally posted by SardonicPoet:

quote:

We as people are never going to accept never ending war. We're just not!

Even if that's the only option your opponent allows you?

If we don't dictate the terms of the fight, they will.

You can debate the pros/cons of either strategy.

But that is an unavoidable reality.

By your own resposne, you have the intelligence to recognize that leaving our opponents to their own devices will bring the 'war' to the 'homeland', which we'll have to defend.

So we're due an endless mortal struggle with people who want our way of life abolished either way, and you want to fight it in OUR yard instead of theirs?

We find ourselves, in this century, presented with the grisly reality that the ones who want to shoot and kill us don't make formal declarations or observe rules of engagement.

And yet, you propose that we must fight them with methods and protocols that they largely ignore.

I'm not trying to be confrontational or derisive to you personally.

I just really want to know why those who believe as you do insist on defining this as a conflict with a single objective of victory that is either attainable or not.

Oh geez. I'm not going through this for the umteenth time. First of all, you've bought into a false reality. And you've let unscrupulous politicians and corporate media hacks define their reality and the enemy for you. If everybody really believes the notion that politicians are crooks and liars, then why do they continue to believe them without question? Somebody answer that one for me! If you don't want Al Qaeda or whatever bothering you, turn off the TV. There! Done! Having said that, I'll just leave you with the words of Abraham Lincoln.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter, and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."

Duddle, it appears to me that you're just an imbecile. You apparently have never cracked a history book in your meager existence if, in fact, you can read and comprehend the written word. You have been fed pap by mentally leftarded sources. It will take substantially more than turning off the tv to keep AQ from bothering you, but you're simply to dim to understand that. So you assume the rest of us are in the alternate dimension you call your reality. Here's a hint: most people with a three-digit IQ are not. Stay in fantasyland if you like.

quote:

Originally posted by zippadeedoodah:
Duddle, it appears to me that you're just an imbecile. You apparently have never cracked a history book in your meager existence if, in fact, you can read and comprehend the written word. You have been fed pap by mentally leftarded sources. It will take substantially more than turning off the tv to keep AQ from bothering you, but you're simply to dim to understand that. So you assume the rest of us are in the alternate dimension you call your reality. Here's a hint: most people with a three-digit IQ are not. Stay in fantasyland if you like.

Yeah yeah yeah... It appears that it's you that can't handle a simple little truth. Tell me oh wise one. How can you personally prove me wrong? You can't. So don't bother. Who writes your words? Who writes the words you believe? You seem so above reproach with your military service. And while there's nothing wrong with military service, and can be quite admirable, it doesn't put you above anybody! But let me tell you my friend. I have many of my own sources from inside the military and other agencies. Many of them I'm quite sure rank higher than you. So don't be preaching to me from your high horse. You're biggest problem seems to be someone who has a little intelligence and who's not afraid to speak a little truth every now and then. Why are you so against trying to find out a little truth? Why are you against questioning of power? I guess it's because you have your orders. As the service men and women had their orders at Abu Ghraib! You seem to have no problem with dual Vietnams going on. You seem to act like you have a firm grasp of the situation. So won't you tell me the solution?

quote:

Originally posted by diddle:


Oh geez. I'm not going through this for the umteenth time. First of all, you've bought into a false reality. And you've let unscrupulous politicians and corporate media hacks define their reality and the enemy for you. If everybody really believes the notion that politicians are crooks and liars, then why do they continue to believe them without question? Somebody answer that one for me! If you don't want Al Qaeda or whatever bothering you, turn off the TV. There! Done! Having said that, I'll just leave you with the words of Abraham Lincoln.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter, and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."

I don’t recall the Lincoln ever faced a foreign invader unless you count Gettysburg. But on the other hand, his comment was right on target given his time.

FDR would have a different opinion of the Axis. Or do you think Hitler would have been satisfied with the western shores of Great Britain and Tojo in Oahu?

So your recommendation is to turn off TV and the Al Qaeda sleeper cells will just disappear? Is that how you do it?

http://www.globalsecurity.org/...da-sleeper-cells.htm

Now I understand why you think the way you do.

quote:

Originally posted by budsfarm:

quote:

Originally posted by diddle:


Oh geez. I'm not going through this for the umteenth time. First of all, you've bought into a false reality. And you've let unscrupulous politicians and corporate media hacks define their reality and the enemy for you. If everybody really believes the notion that politicians are crooks and liars, then why do they continue to believe them without question? Somebody answer that one for me! If you don't want Al Qaeda or whatever bothering you, turn off the TV. There! Done! Having said that, I'll just leave you with the words of Abraham Lincoln.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter, and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."

I don’t recall the Lincoln ever faced a foreign invader unless you count Gettysburg. But on the other hand, his comment was right on target given his time.

FDR would have a different opinion of the Axis. Or do you think Hitler would have been satisfied with the western shores of Great Britain and Tojo in Oahu?

So your recommendation is to turn off TV and the Al Qaeda sleeper cells will just disappear? Is that how you do it?

http://www.globalsecurity.org/...da-sleeper-cells.htm

Now I understand why you think the way you do.

Hey wise guy! If you're so worried about sleeper cells, then why are we over there? Purely illogical.

How much brainwashing of the general public does it take to make them think that if our enemy attacked us here on 911, then why would having a majority of our fire power over there make us any safer here? They didn't attack us in Afghanistan. They didn't attack us in Iraq. They attacked us here! So somebody, anybody tell me how it makes us safer against these "sleeper cells" here by being over there? I would love to hear the ridiculousness of this answer!

quote:

Originally posted by budsfarm:

I don’t recall the Lincoln ever faced a foreign invader unless you count Gettysburg. But on the other hand, his comment was right on target given his time.

And excuse me mr man, but did Lincoln not have the ultimate "sleeper cell" problem? For God's sake people! Get a grip on the true reality!