Fox Show "24": Torture on TV


With at least one big torture scene in every episode and steadily increasing ratings, TV show "24" is more convincing than the White House at making the case for torture.


"24" is back on Fox TV -- the hit show starring Kiefer Sutherland, which premiered Sunday night, once again features at least one big torture scene in every episode -- the kind of torture the Bush White House says is necessary to protect us from you-know-who.

The show is much more convincing than the White House at making the case for torture; its ratings have gone steadily up over the last five years, while Bush's ratings have gone steadily down.

In "24," Sutherland plays special agent Jack Bauer, head of the Counter Terrorism Unit. He fights some of his biggest battles not with the dark-skinned enemies trying to nuke L.A., but rather with the light-skinned do-gooders who think the head of the Counter Terrorism Unit should follow the rules.

Back in season four, for example, the bumbling bureaucrats released a captured terrorist before he could be tortured -- because a lawyer for "Amnesty Global" showed up whining about the Geneva Conventions. Jack had to quit the Counter Terrorist Unit and become a private citizen in order to break the suspect's fingers.

It's especially unfortunate to see Kiefer Sutherland play the world's most popular torturer -- because his father, Donald Sutherland, has been a prominent antiwar activist since Vietnam days and starred in some great films critiquing fascist politics, including "MASH" and Bertolucci's "1900" -- and also because Kiefer's grandfather, Tommy Douglas, was Canada's first socialist premier, and was recently voted "the greatest Canadian of all time" -- because he introduced universal public health care to Canada. The grandson meanwhile is being paid $10 million a season by Rupert Murdoch to shoot kneecaps, chop off hands, and bite his enemies to death (Sunday's special thrill).

The show's connection to the Bush White House and the conservative establishment became explicit last June, when Homeland Security Chief Michael Chertoff appeared alongside the show's producers and three cast members at an event sponsored by the Heritage Foundation to discuss "The public image of US terrorism policy." The discussion was moderated by Rush Limbaugh. The C-SPAN store sells a DVD of the event--price reduced from $60 to $29.95. Sunday night's two-hour premiere again argued not just that torture is necessary but that it works -- and it's also really exciting to watch. The show as usual made the "ticking time bomb" case for torture: we need to torture a suspect, or else thousands, or millions, will die in the next hour.

It's the same case made by Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz, who proposed that judges ought to issue torture warrants in the "rare 'ticking bomb' case," and by University of Chicago law professor and federal judge Richard Posner, who has written, "If torture is the only means of obtaining the information necessary to prevent the detonation of a nuclear bomb in Times Square, torture should be used." He added that "no one who doubts that this is the case should be in a position of responsibility."

Thanks to "24," tens of millions of TV viewers know exactly what Dershowitz and Posner are talking about. As Richard Kim pointed out in The Nation in 2005, those are the cases where "the stakes are dire, the information perfect and the authorities omniscient." Of course that's a fantasy of total knowledge and power, and of course the U.S. has never had a real "ticking time bomb" case -- but Jack Bauer faces one every Sunday night on Fox.


http://ww.alternet.org/story/46757/

Ten Fired After Radio Contest Tragedy
Listener Called to Warn of Potential Danger
CBS News
(Jan. 17) - A Sacramento-area radio station fired 10 employees, including three morning disc jockeys, in reaction to a tragedy in which a woman died Friday after an on-air water-drinking contest at the station's studios.

http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles/_a/ten-fired-after...id=NWS00010000000001

I wish there were some free way to secure a transcript of one of last week's episodes of Larry King Live. He hosted the cast and they all spoke to the issue. The concensus was that the show highlighted a fantasy world where everything is solved in a single 24-hour period. They shunned the idea that their high ratings meant that America approves of torture. There was more to it, but that's all I can remember on the fly.

quote:

Originally posted by one who posts:
I wish there were some free way to secure a transcript of one of last week's episodes of Larry King Live. He hosted the cast and they all spoke to the issue. The concensus was that the show highlighted a fantasy world where everything is solved in a single 24-hour period. They shunned the idea that their high ratings meant that America approves of torture. There was more to it, but that's all I can remember on the fly.

This is not good that America approves of torture.What happen to moarls and values?

America has had torture on drama shows since it started. Even before TV, movies with this type of action were big draws at the box office. Often time it was implied rather than expressed, but it was there nonetheless. If you are going to slam morals and values concerning torture and killing and other violent acts in the entertainment venues such as movies and tv, you'll have to go back to our grandparents and start there.


Besides, if you want torture on TV, try watching some of the afternoon talk shows

But, then, you are the one that is on the receiving end of the torture

quote:

Originally posted by alacharger:
If you want torture on TV, try watching some of the afternoon talk shows

But, you are the one tortured then

This is why we need to bring back those FCC rules we use to have for TV,RADIO!

quote:

Originally posted by PBA:

quote:

Originally posted by alacharger:
If you want torture on TV, try watching some of the afternoon talk shows

But, you are the one tortured then

This is why we need to bring back those FCC rules we use to have for TV,RADIO!

So, you're against any infringement of your "rights", such as warantless checking of your financial records, but you want the government to regulate what you can and can't watch on TV???? Seems a little contradictory to me.

quote:

Originally posted by alacharger:
America has had torture on drama shows since it started. Even before TV, movies with this type of action were big draws at the box office. Often time it was implied rather than expressed, but it was there nonetheless. If you are going to slam morals and values concerning torture and killing and other violent acts in the entertainment venues such as movies and tv, you'll have to go back to our grandparents and start there.


Besides, if you want torture on TV, try watching some of the afternoon talk shows

But, then, you are the one that is on the receiving end of the torture

I'm with ya', but the level of torture on 24 is probably more intense than the ol' tube has ever seen. Just this week we've already seen a man have a knife shoved into his knee in order to get information. This instance is in abundant company in regards to the other episodes. Of course, I absolutely LOVE the show, but the question of America's torture approval is a valid one.

I Love the show. If we allowed this type of torture in our government we might get closer to catching some of the evil villans who are out to get our great country. Keep up the torture Jack!

quote:

Originally posted by GoUA:
I Love the show. If we allowed this type of torture in our government we might get closer to catching some of the evil villans who are out to get our great country. Keep up the torture Jack!

This is as respectful as I can possibly be while remaining candid: in the words of John Brown a.k.a. King of the 'Burbs (from VH1's The Next White Rapper) . . . "Hallelujah! Holla' back!" As left as I lean, I'm with GoUA on this one.

Folks,

Its a TV show, a nice piece of fiction, lighten up. Soon you'll see agents behind every Ficus plant. As to the government checking on your finances. What do you think the bigfour credit bureaus do?

That suitcase nuke was A real piece of fiction. The real ones were the size of steamer trunk and weighted about 60 pounds. They required constant maintenance and had a yield closer to .1 to .2 kilotons rather than the 1 kilotons (Hiroshima was 15 kilotons) shown on 24. Plus, radiation fallout would be much smaller, especially from a ground blast.

Radiation fallout is usually more severe from a ground blast, more contaminated debris gets thrown into the air.

What do you think about the radio contest and the lady that drink all that water and killed her? The radio station knew what this would do to someone.

quote:

Originally posted by interventor:
Folks,

Its a TV show, a nice piece of fiction, lighten up. Soon you'll see agents behind every Ficus plant. As to the government checking on your finances. What do you think the bigfour credit bureaus do?

That suitcase nuke was A real piece of fiction. The real ones were the size of steamer trunk and weighted about 60 pounds. They required constant maintenance and had a yield closer to .1 to .2 kilotons rather than the 1 kilotons (Hiroshima was 15 kilotons) shown on 24. Plus, radiation fallout would be much smaller, especially from a ground blast.

You're dead on in your first paragraph. It's not just the credit bureaus, it's also your jobs. There are articles published this very week about people who can't secure a job because of their credit.

As for your 2nd paragraph, you're absolutely right . . . for the time about which you're speaking. The bomb on 24 is absolutely real and Alphonse's response contains only part of the manner in which it works its devastation. Also, keep in mind that you've got to figure detonation location into every equation. Military testing sites, depending on which ones they use, do not always take this into consideration in test runs. Anything in L.A. will produce a far greater radius of carnage due to ocean air and wind.

quote:

Originally posted by PBA:
What do you think about the radio contest and the lady that drink all that water and killed her? The radio station knew what this would do to someone.

Nah! With all the Urban Legends going around, and the "kookiness" of the average caller to a morning show, it would be difficult, even near impossible, to prove solid, prior knowledge. There is no way there was intent to endanger, especially in light of the follow-up call. The symptom of light-headedness is associated with an unbelievable amount of medication. She could have been on or taken any number of things that day.